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Clicking through the usernames on the oldest threads, basically no one there then still posts on HN, most seemed to have dropped off around 2014 or before.

I wonder what they're up to? Just lurking and not posting? Gave up on "the lifestyle"? Burnout? Forgot their password and created a new account?



Definitely some are lurking out of sheer addictive habit. But there's fewer reasons to leave comments because a) the community grew and there's already someone who articulated your point, so no sense in repeating it and b) the hivemind has moved in a different direction and it's more challenging to have reasonable discourse here without it feeling like you're "debating" 14-year-olds on Reddit.


...the hivemind has moved in a different direction...

This is definitely a big one.

The focus did use to be a lot more specific to startups with all the good and the bad that came with it. Things like a less negative view of "dark patterns" and more marketing related topics were definitely a part of a community back then.

Questions like "Should I be tracking as much data about my users as possible" would have been answered with "Yes, absolutely, the more data the better." much more often than you would ever see nowadays.


Agreed, but most of my own reluctance to engage comes not from the generally low intellectual level of the commentary but from the pervasive character assassination that accompanies it.

Some of this is a result of importing the culture-war mentality that destroyed Twitter, but some of it is not; see how often the word "disingenuous" gets posted, generally as an assertion that the parent commenter must be a liar because they couldn't possibly be so stupid as to believe what they wrote. That's pure native HN viciousness, not a Twitter import.


There is evidence that a large fraction of Hacker News readers are early in their programming journey. Presumably people migrate elsewhere as they mature? I don't know of another forum like Hacker News, so where are they going?

To understand the level of programming skill on Hacker News, consider that less than 5% of Hacker News readers succeed in adjusting a loop iteration variable to avoid unsigned overflow (despite repeatedly attempting to do so):

https://bugfix-66.com/8617f16fa68e021b656b1856f94afebf7a3117...

This is an empirical observation and not an attack (please don't flag/downvote this comment). It tells us something about the population of users on the forum, and where they are on the developmental timeline as programmers.

It seems like more senior programmers move on, maybe.


This rings true for me. The value of HN early in my career was exposing me to a firehose of industry content while I tried to figure out my place.

As I get further into my career, the signal to noise ratio is shifting quite a bit. I’ve seen many iterations of what’s being posted already, most of the comments aren’t novel, etc.

At this point HN is a habit. And a hard one to break.


Well, it tells us about the Go programmers on the forum. One possibility is that as Go has become more mainstream, Go programmers have become less competent on average.


Go is very close to C.

A C programmer who understands a for loop should be able to fix this, despite the fact it's Go:

  // We are generating n-1, n-2, ..., 1, 0

  func below(n uint64, to chan uint64) {
      for n--; n >= 0; n-- {
          to <- n
      }
      close(to)
  }
Maybe you're right: It could be that C programmers don't understand Go syntax and Go programmers tend to be less experienced.


EDIT: the version I pasted below is not what I originally typed into the site. I made several errors while copy/pasting and modifying the code to run locally without a channel.

It told me I have an error ("what happens at zero") when i do:

  func below(n uint64, to chan uint64) {
        for n; n > 0; n-- {
            to <- n-1
            n--
        }
        close(to)
    }
but running that function with several test inputs produces what I expected. Note, I removed the channel (replaced with println) as that doesn't add anything to the problem.

Note: I've been programming (including C and C++) for 3+ decades. I make mistakes all the time, but.... what exactly are you looking for here if my solution is not ruight?

EDIT: the pasted code is also incorrect, because I didn't complete converting the for loop into a while.


Why did you choose to decrement n twice on each iteration? What happens when n is odd vs even now?


Oh, sorry, I didn't paste the right code.

On my machine I used this code:

  package main
  import "fmt"
  func below(n uint64 ) {
      for n>0 {
      fmt.Println(n-1)
          n--
      }
  }


  func main() {
      below(10);
      below(0);
  }
The actual code I put into the bugfix site was:

  func below(n uint64, to chan uint64) {
          for n>0 {
              to <- n-1
              n--
          }
          close(to)
      }
but when writing this comment I went back and didn't modify the for loop to be a while.


The above code is correct, and of course it is accepted.


Why does it say "What happens at 0" when you omit the decrement?


When your code is wrong, the server gives you a clue hinting at what's wrong in the original code.

It doesn't know what's wrong in the code you submitted... it is not understanding deeply what's wrong with your code. It's not some huge multi-terabyte language model analyzing arbitrary code, or whatever.

It just knows your code is wrong and gives you a clue so you can try again.


If you omit the decrement, it's an infinite loop for n>1, presumably, you are detecting that?


The server is checking the output of the function.

Here is an example of what's running behind the scenes, to help you understand:

https://bugfix-66.com/contribute

The above code is what's being used for Bug #1:

https://bugfix-66.com/a6cb1e062ae0fdc47b43ec489aa40a958db728...

Is that pretty clear?


I also came to a solution very similar to the sibling comment here. I'd love to see why this doesn't work server-side but does work on my machine. What other tests are you running aside from checking each decrement is correct?


Show me your code, that you think is correct, and the server rejects.

I'll tell you what's wrong with your code.


Might I recommend appropriate debugging output? It would save the mystery and back and forth. Not everyone who uses your site has access to you on HN. :)

    func below(n uint64, to chan uint64) {
        for ; n >= 0; n-- {
            var t = n - 1
            to <- n
        }
        close(to)
    }
I've run this locally with to <- n replaced with a print statement and it works with unsigned integers.


Did you make other changes besides `to <- n` becoming print? Because as it stands, that will still produce an infinite loop.


Oh, yes. The for loop init should be "; n > 0; n--"


I don't program C or Go. I ran the logic and it works; I verified by running a modified version of this method on my computer.

    func below(n int) {
        for n--; n >= 0; n-- {
            fmt.Println(n)
        }
    }
I modified the type so I could punch in some sane integer, like 4. And this works.

    C:\git\bugfix66> go run .\bugfix66-2.go
    3
    2
    1
    0
Am I to assume that the bug is actually a type issue? Something to do with unsigned integers?

Wait. Oh. Ok. I get it. It does have to do with the type signature.


What happens if you start at n=0 for uint64?

(my real comment after I get some clarification from the bugfix site author is that I never, ever modify a variable in the initialization condition of a for loop, and i see that in the wild, I elide it.


You're using a signed integer.


While it is of course possible for people from other languages to do your puzzles, I'd expect most of the players to be Go programmers.


> Presumably people migrate elsewhere as they mature? I don't know of another forum like Hacker News, so where are they going?

As someone who has been reading and posting here regularly since 2009, here's what I'm finding: The further I get in my pursuits, the more my concerns and tribulations become specialized and weird. To get a useful answer from the public internet would require so much backstory and explanation that it's barely worth trying. And the answer would likely be wrong or not useful.

Instead real world social networks and specialized micro communities are where it's at. A lot of paid consultations as well. Pay a few hundred (or thousand) bucks to an expert and get the correct customized answer to a specific problem. Worth every penny compared to reading tea leaves off the wild internet.

But HN is still one of the highest signal broad communities out there so it's fun to stick around.


Does your bugfix problem actually test said code? Or does it just look for a specific change to be made, because I'm reasonably certain I input multiple correct solutions and they were all marked as having not solved the problem.


Yes, the code you enter is compiled and run against a suite of tests. Any change that fixes the function will be accepted.

Any change that doesn't compile (bad syntax) or fails the tests is rejected. Code that produces deadlock or panic or timeout is also rejected.

If you give me an example of a rejected solution, I'll show you why the solution wrong.


Downvoted for loose epistemology.

1. No comparison to base rate. 5% shouldn’t make us believe they’re early in their journey. You haven’t given any observations about experience and the rate of error fixing.

2. Ignored sample bias. <5% of the users who submit to your site that you can track to HN solve the problem. That is very different from “<5% of HN readers”.


Please, can we not be so uptight and formal in an informal discussion forum?


This seems like unnecessary tone-policing. I said exactly what I think is incorrect in their comment and why, without any judgements about them.

If anything, my downvote comment was too childish. I was put-off by their line about not downvoting because it was “empirical”. Seemed to insinuate anyone who disagreed was just going against the facts.

Edit: oh, didn’t realize I was replying to you again.


It is a bit of a fair point though: you're only measuring "the success of people from HN who engage with your game", so it's not sound to draw conclusions about "the population of all HN users". Even if it is true that HN has a junior-skew, it wouldn't mean there is necessarily "somewhere else" -- lobste.rs aside, the eternal september effect (or other things) could be enough to keep the demographic population skewed junior.

I've been programming for about 15-20 years, and using HN since 2007 or 2008 or so. I opened your site while reading the voxel thread, and was a little baffled about what I was encountering -- "why am I suddenly reading buggy go code? I thought this was an example of a spacial curve!" -- so, I went to check out your other posts to figure out what your deal is, and here we are.

I don't know Go, and I don't really want to "play a programming game" right now. Your code seemed a little obtuse and intimidating -- long bitmasks and combinations of xors and abstract names -- no thanks! There's a bug in there? How surprising!

I do lots of programming at work and in my spare time, and to a degree, I just can't be arsed when someone jumps out of the woodwork with "a bug" that it isn't going to mean anything to fix, so I moved on. I'm an experienced programmer who you likely aren't measuring.

So I saw your comment here, and my first thought was: well, that's a big (logic) bug in the reasoning of a person who made a game of fixing bugs! Kinda tasty irony, and totally fair game for the poster above to call out, in my opinion.

(anyway, after all this, I am a little bit more interested to go try out the above-mentioned challenge. It's a neat idea for a game, and you seem to have put a lot of work into it. Best of luck!)


A bit macabre but some non-zero number are dead. I've frequently wondered if there will be a way to scrub/compile my online activity (within reason) for my family and friends to review after it's all said and done, otherwise I'll just live in a database forever.


It’ll probably deleted.

Then again, conversations are usually deleted the moment they happen, in the sense that they don’t get stored.


Roughly nothing has been deleted since 2005 or so, with limited exceptions.


My forever-lost Myspace content begs to differ (I am somewhat kidding, and very salty about it)


It was sold to the highest bidder, not deleted. A related issue.


One possible explanation is that people often just move on between techie online communities after awhile. I've done it several times.

Or, a lot of HN activity seems to be by people in hustle mode. Maybe a lot of them finally made their fortunes, and are now spending their time with their kids, or windsurfing.

Then there's wasting time while stuck in-office all day. Less a problem with WFH, when you can go do dishes while you're waiting for that build or someone to respond. And WFH means less of a need to kill time at your desk before it's socially acceptable to go home (or get a train/shuttle), even if you put in a solid day and you're at a good stopping point before a busy day tomorrow.


I could not care less: every time I reach 100 karma points I feel I need a new account to project my renewed self...


this seems like way more work than the established best practice of two joints at every ten thousand points.


Indeed it is. What matters for me here is to stay fresh and growing, while being able to be truly transparent and anonymous.


I clicked on the older post, and then the first couple of comments... and one of them has commented within the last few months.

Not sure what the exact turnover rate is, but it seems pretty normal that there would be some turnover over 15 years.


We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33290805.


That's almost 10 years ago. Maybe they're all gainfully employed with their hard-won knowledge in programming? Albeit a tad prematurely...


I mean...I've been gainfully employed the entire time but am still here :) I was on HN long before I registered this username - in fact, I only registered this user after I noticed the quality of comments degrading (hence the name).

Maybe I'm different than other earlier people who were drawn here - I'm just interested in tech and never really thought of doing the startup route. I've made a few millions of dollars in total comp in that time, but I do wonder where I would be if I took a step out of my comfortable FANG-type job 15 years ago.


I perpeturally wonder things like this.


HN has changed.




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